Sunday, 11 April 2010

Vatican lifts veil of secrecy on abuse cases

I wonder if Benedict is going to be meeting with those abused by priests that he was involved in protecting? Will those whom he will meet be handpicked - people who are so relieved to be acknowledged, after all this time, and blinded by the "holiness" that is the Pope that they'll be thoroughly satisfied, irrespective of what he says and then does subsequently?

Vatican lifts veil of secrecy on abuse cases

Or is this genuine contrition, on the part of the Church? Has the penny finally dropped? We shall see.

Addendum (18 April, 2010):
I read, a couple of days ago, that Benedict is making a visit to devoutly Catholic Malta (the last country in Europe where one may not divorce, apparently), which has its fair share of abuse cases, I understand. Having intimated that he'd meet with those who have laid claims of abuse, it now seems that his whistlestop tour can't accommodate such a meeting...



It's called denial Matt - or blind faith.

Maybe Dawkins is right?

Radagast said...

Bob: LOL - I had to search Dawkins' bio online, in order to find out who he is! Anyway, right in what way? That God doesn't exist and belief in God is delusional?

I don't care whether God exists, or not, to be honest - it's not something that represents an issue for me. However, I do know that "every being in the Universe knows the difference between right and wrong," as Prot put it. Choosing to further traumatize the abused by silencing them and engaging in cover-up brought the "wrong" result. Not subjectively, either: it suited only one party (the Church) - both the abusers and the abused were exploited, as I perceive it.

Anyway, if one believes that there is a God, then one should imagine what qualities (S)He possesses, and seek to emulate them, however poor one's efforts. That's what I'd do, anyway. What must the Vatican's God look like; assuming that these holy men would do the same thing?



God or rather the belief or disbelief in him/her/it can fuck with one's head Matt.

I remember reading the God Delusion - I got about half-way through it as it is very repeatative.

Now, here's the thing. A lot of bad things started happening in my life whilst I was reading it - Was this God punishing me for daring to seek another opinion?

I was raised a Catholic Matt, my first experience of death came when I was around 5 years of age - I walked into a church as an infant and saw sculptures of some bearded guy nailed to a cross - as the years rolled on I was told to confess my sins to some dress wearing 'saint' behind a grill in a confessional box.

If we all stood back and rationalized things we would see that the existence of God is akin to the existence of three little talking pigs.

The Vatican holds many secrets - a place bathed in riches yet it's main dweller [the Pope] preaches about poverty.

Hypocrisy at its very best.

I have nothing against people who believe in God, to me, they are just like any other normal psychopath :-)

Seriously though, if people want to believe and that belief gives them a sense of comfort then it can't be a bad thing. I just wish they would acknowledge that the earth is over 8,000 years old :-)

Radagast said...

Bob: Ah, now... We've got a choice: God exists vs God doesn't exist. It's not possible to prove a negative, so there's no point trying to demonstrate the absence of a supreme being, and I've no idea what I should treat as firm evidence of His (or, let's be fair, Her), existence, so I can't prove that, either!

In any case, if I were required to believe that God existed, then I'd have to dismiss from my mind anything that was held up to support the notion of God not existing. I don't like being coerced, like that. Nope, closing off whole avenues of possibility, like that, is not the way to go.

Mind you, I would say that this simplistic idea of Good vs Evil is getting a bit old! Besides, seeing as none of us are God, then none of us is in any position to say what amounts to Good, or Evil!



It's one of my favourite debates Matt. Trouble is... it normally ends up with the 'believer' throwing a hissy fit - well, that's what I've found over the years anyhow.

I started questioning at an early age - my secondary school as it goes.

RE Lessons were fraught with me telling the teacher that the Bible was littered with UFO connotations.

"Evil child, heathen"

A Catholic school whose board of governers were two priests, both stunk of cigarettes and Whiskey and both saw fit to cane those who dared question them.

You see, when a person resorts to violence because another person disagrees with them, we have a war on our hands.

Someone once said to me, "There are over 600 religions in the UK alone... Only one of them is right."

A recipe for disaster me thinks.

Ana said...

If God exists or not I don't care as long as he hears me: "Dear Lord! The rice is burning!"
I spent two months - infinity - in a catholic church surrounded by girls and noons.
My recollections are like being in a satanic ritual.
I believe in God, just in case.
Good Lord Matt! Pay me a visit from time to time. There is a funny video of an Italian. DOn't go to justAna because there is nothing but suffering. :(
Just came to say Hi!
Hi Bob... AC/DC man?

Radagast said...

Bob: LOL. Yes, this is one of those phenomenon that one can think about, if one doesn't want to reach any firm conclusions about anything! Arguments between religions appear to boil down to how best one should recognize and worship God! I would point out that there's never been a religious war featuring atheists/agnostics vs. A.N. Other, as far as I'm aware!

Having said that, in religious states, non-believers have been routinely punished for their lack of belief, as though physical pain would bring about a belief in God, or something... I don't quite follow the logic of that, but I'm sure there's one there, somewhere!

Hmmm. Let's look at it another way. If God exists, then (S)He must have the biggest belief system of any sentient being. That's just got to be a given, I think. God created everything, and must, therefore, know how everything works. We're told, in the Christian tradition, that (S)He's got a Plan, which must involve everything and everybody, because otherwise these things and people wouldn't have been created, in the first place.

Now, this is my logic, not God's, but based on what I've just written, I would say that it is absolutely irrelevant whether or not *anybody* believes in God. Even if nobody believed, (S)He would still exist, and the Plan would still unfold, and everybody would be part of it.

I, a mere mortal and a don't-really-care-one-way-or-the-otherer, can perceive this with only a modicum of mental effort. The only conclusion I can draw is this: when a believer requires others to believe in God, it is not God being validated, it is the believer and the believer's belief system.

Should somebody who needs to impose their interpretation of what is real on others in order to validate it really be in charge of anything?


The Pope is in charge of nothing really... other than keeping the flames fanned.

Nobody has the answers. When a Christian or one learned in the Bible cannot answer they use, "Only God knows the answer" - Kind of a cop out.

'Heaven' is a closed shop - I just wish I had the address.

It's 2010 and we have people still believing that Jonah lived inside the belly of a whale or that Noah built a boat [Ark] so big that he could house every single living creature. Then there is the virgin birth - not content with that we have the resurrection, the walking on water and countless other miracles performed by the 'son of God' who, as Catholics believe, was actually God! {The Trinty}

Any of the above in the DSM?

Radagast said...

Bob: One thing at a time!

There's an issue with the way that most hierarchies are structured, and that is that the person who is notionally at the top and should have all the authority and responsibility, rarely exercizes the one, nor accepts the other! There is level upon level of built-in deniability in these structures - that's accepted as being the case, anyway, and I've seen evidence to support the claim. Good luck to you, if you choose to ask who it is that accepts responsibility when the shit hits the fan, because it will probably be the person who was unfortunate enough to notice that there was a problem, in the first place!

As to miracles... I'm not sure what they demonstrate, to be honest... Let's say that Jesus walked on water, 2,000 years ago. So, what? I mean: so, what? To a Christian this must mean something, and I'd be interested to know what it is. Until I understand that, then I can't really enter into a discussion about it!



Brian Little used to walk on water :-)

Radagast said...

Bob: And he doesn't, now? He must have stopped believing!


He only walked on water when playing for the Villa Matt :-)

Radagast said...

I don't remember him that well... Was he coming to the end of his career at around the time that Andy Gray was emerging?


Yes mate. He wasn't all that if I'm being honest - it's just the song used to be, "Brian Little walks on water"

Funny, because the current crop of Premiership footballers probably believe they can walk on water, such is the pedestal they are put on by adoring fans, management and agents.

Radagast said...

Bob: I should think it's difficult to receive all that adoration, and not be affected by it. Same in reverse - do you remember Jason Lee, at Forest? He looked like he was going to fill Stan Collymore's boots with ease, and then the "pineapple on his head" -thing started, and his confidence nosedived.

It doesn't take much, sometimes, which is why I'm always careful, even when I'm lobbing vitriol at somebody, to leave an escape route. Real bullies don't do that.